Playing With The Click Advice From Session Drummer Brian MacLeod

Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows how much I love, admire and respect great drummers. My good buddy Brian MacLeod certainly falls into this category, having been the pulse behind recordings of Sheryl Crowe, Madonna, Christina Aguilera, Seal, Ziggy Marley and many more.

I remember the first time I heard Crow's "All I Wanna Do" at a party as it was climbing the charts, and the only thing I could think about was "Wow, does the drummer ever groove on this." And that's exactly what Brian does - make the song groove and feel good in a way that few can. Here's an excerpt from an interview with Brian from The Drum Recording Handbook (which was written with the great engineer Dennis Moody) where he talks about playing to a click and gives some great advice to young drummers.

"There’s a defining moment for every player when they finally “get it.” What was yours?

Brian McLeod: That’s an interesting moment for me. I think it was on my first trip to LA on my first kind of big session. It was with Patrick Leonard (producer for Madonna, Rod Stewart, Jewel, Bon Jovi, Elton John and Pink Floyd among others). He flew me down from San Francisco, where I was teaching drums and playing live. I had toured a bit and done a few albums in England at that point.  Pat was starting a band and was auditioning me to be the drummer.  

Now this is back in the days of tape. He played me a track, which was already finished, that had a click. I played that song and then another and he said, “Hey Brian, can you come in here for a minute” [to join him in the control room]. I thought to myself, “That’s my audition. I guess I’m outa here,” so I actually grabbed my stick bag and zipped it up so I wouldn’t have the embarrassment of having to walk back out into the studio to get it. I figured that the door out of the studio was in the control room and if he was firing me, I just wanted to be able to leave as fast as I can.

I zipped up my stick bag and walked into the control room and he looked at it with a confused look on his face, like “What are you doing?”. So I go, “What’s up?” and he says, “I love the way you play to the click. You know how to lock in without making it sound mechanical. I want to hire you to do this record.” Then he says, “Oh, by the way, listen to a track I just finished,” and he cranks up Madonna’s “Like A Prayer” at full volume. That was the moment I felt like, “Wow, I think I get this.” I realized at that moment that I really could play to a click and make it breath at the same time, and that really is an important thing for drummers to learn. If you play to a click, don’t be so focused on it that you lose sight of the fact that your actually playing a song.

What are you looking for in the phones when you record?

That’s a great question. Generally it depends on how we’re tracking. If I’m tracking with a bass player and we’re doing overdubs to an existing track, I’ll try to get a nice even level so it sounds like a record with the vocals and the bass player just above the music. I want to hear the bass player so I can be sure to lock my kick drum with him. Then if I’m tracking live I want whoever is the leader of the song to be above the track. Like if the guitar player has written the song, he might be doing some important inflections that I need to hear. If it’s a vocalist who has written the song and they’re evoking some emotion that they really want, I’ll make sure that is above everything else. So I latch on to whatever the main instrument of the tracking date is, or what is the biggest concern seems to be when laying down the basics.

I’ll also have the click at an ungodly level, which can drive producers and engineer’s crazy, so I like to use closed headphones for that. I’m still looking for the perfect set of headphones because you don’t want the click track leaking into the song. On Christina Aguilara’s "Beautiful," you can hear a bit of the drum machine on her vocal track, but the vocal was so amazing that they just went with it.  You have to be careful especially on endings of songs. I try to get the engineer to cut the click off so that the cymbal sustain doesn’t have any click bleed. I’ll even punch in the ending of a song if they can’t catch it at the right time.

What kind of a click sound do you like?

In the old days I used to be very specific about it. I used to like a cowbell or some sort of side-stick sound with a shaker doing 16ths or 8ths depending on the feel of the song. I have to say that’s still my favorite click track, but I’m getting used to just the Protools click. I’ve adjusted over the years, but my preference still is the cowbell and shaker.

Do you any mic preferences on your drums?

Depending on the engineer and the producer, if they have a preference I’ll go with what they want, but I gotta say I really love a [Neumann] FET-47 on the outside of the kick drum. That’s one of my favorite mics. I like ribbon mics a lot for room and overheads. I like the Beyer M-160 ribbon on the hat. That warmed it up a lot. I did a session the other day where we used Sony C-37s on the toms (which haven’t been made since the late 60’s) and they sounded amazing. The producer said, “If you weren’t the drummer, I wouldn’t put them up,” because they’re so fragile that you have to be afraid of hitting them. That was really quite a compliment. Then again, some people get great results from Sennheiser 421’s.  

I don’t generally do top and bottom mics on the toms. I don’t like too many mics on the drum kit unless the producer and engineer are really paying attention to the phase cancellation, but I have had good results with people who have done it that way. I walked into a session with a metal producer who shall remain nameless, and he had the kit miked up with what looked like 40 microphones. I thought, “This is ridiculous,” but I played the track and it sounded amazing. Then sometimes I’ll work with just three mics on the kit and it will sound great too. Everybody has their own technique and I try to be flexible because most of the people that I work with are so high end that I trust them to get my drums sounding the way they want them to sound.

You mentioned before about Patrick Leonard inviting you to LA to record. Would you consider that your big break?

I think so because after we finished that I record I was pretty much planning on moving back to the Bay area, but Patrick said, “Hey Brian, if you lived in LA I would use you on the records I work on.” Ironically the engineer/co-producer on that record was Bill Bottrell (who eventually went on to produce Sheryl Crow, Michael Jackson and Shelby Lynn) and he said the same thing to me. So I had two top-of-the-line producers tell me that if I lived in LA they’d use me on their records. It became a no-brainer for me to run up to the Bay area, pack my things in a U-Haul, and get my butt to LA. Then it kind of expanded from there.

I had no delusions of moving to LA before those sessions. I was too content up in the Bay area where I had a nice life teaching drums and playing live almost every night. It was wonderful, so I really didn’t want to move to LA unless there was a good reason because I didn’t just want to try to break in the way everyone seems to do it. It would have been too frustrating for me.

Do you have any other advice for a young drummer just starting out?

Yeah, I’d say try to play to a click as much as you can so you can learn to play with it yet lose sight of it at the same time. You want the feel of the click track to become like intuition, so it doesn’t make you feel shackled to it.

Also, when you work with a producer, be as flexible as you can be. Don’t be stubborn and trust the people you work with. If the engineer or producer has a suggestion, trust their advice. I was talking to a producer the other day about he’ll sometimes have a drummer come in that will insist on playing his own kit. If I work with a producer that wants me to play his old vintage kit, of course I’ll play it because I think it’s important to be flexible. Even if you show up with your gear, if he has his kit miked up and he knows what it sounds like, I’ll generally do that. If they’re not satisfied after that, then I’ll use my drums.

Another thing, if you have any ideas, make the suggestion if the time is right because it’s all about teamwork and you’re on the team."

You can read additional excerpts from The Drum Recording Handbook and my other books on the excerpt section of bobbyowsinski.com.

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Drummer Brian MacLeod's Best Sessions

My good friend Brian MacLeod is one of LA's best and most in-demand session drummers. Everything he plays not only sounds great, but feels even better. I can remember hearing Sheryl Crow's breakout single "All I Want To Do" and liking the song, but noticing even more how great the drum track was. It wasn't flashy, but it grooved hard. In my opinion, that's a great example of Brian at his best.

Brian recently wrote a brief piece for Modern Drummer magazine about the ten songs that he played on that stood out to him. There's so much great info that I thought it should be repeated here. If you're a drummer, producer, or engineer, you'll love this.
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When Modern Drummer asked me to write about ten songs I've played on that were special to me, my initial thought was. Wow, it's going to be hard to come up with that many. Then I started reviewing music and realized it would be tough to narrow it down! So here you have it. I'll start with a happy accident.

Sheryl Crow, "Solidify," Tuesday Night Music Club (1993)
"Solidify" was a song I recorded for Sheryl Crow's first album. I've had drummers come up to me and say, "That's a crazy track. The fills are all in weird places. How did you come up with that?" Well, to let the cat out of the bag, that track started as a jam that we recorded, and it had no form. The song was written over that jam. That's why the fills come in haphazard places. From that experience, I learned it can be cool to play fills a bar after a change to a verse or a chorus. I still do that on occasion.

For "Solidify" I used [producer] Bill Bottrell's Gretsch kit and my 5 ½x14 Black Beauty snare. On other tracks I used a Valley Drum Shop wood snare, which has a darker 70s sound.

Ziggy Marley, "True To Myself," Dragonfly (2003)
This song was lots of fun to play, and the message is so great! I played a toy drumkit on the track. That same kit was used for a Marilyn Manson video shoot. It had a 16'' kick, a 12'' tom, and a 12'' snare, which I cranked way up. I used two 8'' splash cymbals for hi-hats. The producer, Ross Hogarth, made it sound great. I played the song using an anti-fills approach, which is a tip of the hat to Steve Jordan. Sometimes space is the place.

To get a consistently punchy kick drum sound, even on a toy drum, I try not to let the beater choke the sound. I let the beater slap the head, and I don't hit super-hard. If you hit at just the right velocity, you get a better tone out of the drum, and it will sound lower.

Steady grooves like this require solid time. To develop that, it's good to practice to drum loops or click tracks. When I first started recording myself, I freaked out because I was rushing my fills. So I practiced a lot to a click so I could play my grooves and fills with confidence and still sound natural, without feeling like I was pushing and pulling too much.

Toy Matinee, "Last Plane Out," Toy Matinee (1990)
It was hard to pick one song from this record. But "Last Plane Out" sums up the entire experience, and it was the first single. I had just moved to Los Angeles and was pretty green. When I got the call to audition for the band, I thought there was no way I would get the gig. The players in the lineup were at the top of their respective fields, and I didn't know much about recording at the time. I didn't even know what a compressor was. I learned a lot about recording techniques from this session.

I like "Last Plane Out" because I really connected with the bass player, Guy Pratt. The kick and bass guitar are pretty tight, and the middle-eight section has some cool pushes with the kick and bass.

I used [producer] Pat Leonard's DW kit, which John Good made personally for him. John even came down to the studio each day and tuned the drums for us. So I got spoiled on that session.

The Office TV show theme (2005)
My buddy Bob Thiele Jr. called me and said, "Hey, can you come down and help me record this song for a TV show?" Well, I got down there, we listened to the demo once, and then we went into the studio and tracked it. Greg Daniels, the show's producer, said, "That's perfect!" We all looked at each other in total confusion. We were still learning the song, but Greg loved what we did. It's so scrappy, but it fits the show. I hear that song at least once a day-I can't get away from it!

I used a 5 ½x14 Supra-Phonic from the '70s, tuned pretty tight. I like to use different sounds on different tracks. If the song is fast and energetic, I'll generally pull out a Supra-Phonic or a 5 ½x14 wood snare and crank it up to get an open, Stewart Copeland-type sound. If it's a ballad-style track, I'll whip out one of my old, deep mahogany drums, tune it way down, and muffle it with my wallet or some tape.

Dramarama, "Memo From Turner," Vinyl (1991)
I was brought in to do this record after they lost their drummer. We got together and played through the album once at the band's rehearsal studio and then went into the studio and started tracking. We didn't play "Memo From Turner" in rehearsal. The producer, the late Don Smith, played it for me once, we went into the studio and tracked it, and that was it. Don was a master at capturing first-take magic.

I love the ending of this track. I messed it up when we recorded it, so Don just slowed down the tape. When I was younger, I used to lose sleep over little mistakes, but now I find them endearing. This is my wife's favorite album I've ever worked on.

Christina Aguilera, "Nasty Naughty Boy," Back To Basics (2006)
I used my old Slingerland Radio King drumset on this track, to get an authentic '40s/'50s burlesque vibe. That style isn't my area of expertise, so I just trusted my instincts to try to make it sound sexy. Brushes always make me a little nervous. I had my sticks under my arms and had to drop the brushes and pick up the sticks to make the transition. We tracked this song live, so there was no punching in.

Christina Aguilera, "Beautiful," Stripped (2002)
The night I got the call to record this track, I had worked all day. I'd just come home and lit up a cigar, and I was relaxing in my hot tub. My wife came out with the phone. I shook my head and told her, "I'm not home." But when she said it was [famed producer/songwriter] Linda Perry, I took the call. Linda had just recorded a demo for Christina and wanted me to come down that night to play on it. So I got out of my very comfortable tub and made my way down to the studio.

After we got drum sounds, Linda played me the song. I was floored! The message, the melody...everything about it was stunning. All I had to do was give it a bit of time and not screw it up. The final track has Christina's demo vocal, because she couldn't beat it.

There was a drum machine on the original demo-which I loved-so I tried to keep that steady vibe throughout. If the song had gotten really big at the end, it could have sounded cheesy. I wanted to be invisible and just keep time. Sometimes that's all you need to do.

I used a '70s Gretsch kit with a custom Drum Doctor 4 ½x14 wood snare.

Pink, "Waiting For Love," Try This (2003)
This song was written on the spot while we were making Pink's second album. It was recorded in her living room with the drums set up in the entryway, which had marble floors. The guitarist played the riff, and I started playing a tom groove. I put tea towels on the drums to get a more distinct sound. Pink loved what we were doing, so she started singing along. This song only made the album because she loved the groove. I like the track because it was recorded live and has flaws. We didn't use a click track, so it speeds up a bit. But it's rock 'n' roll!

Sara Bareilles, "Vegas," Little Voice (2008)
This track is full-on Brian MacLeod. Hats off to the producer, Eric Rosse, for letting me be myself. I love this one because it's so organic. I used a 30'' marching bass drum. I bought that drum off eBay, and I've never messed with it-I've never changed the heads or even tuned it. It has a distinct sound. I hit it pretty lightly, because it resonates too much when I hit it harder.

The toms are custom-made wood-hoop drums by ddrum.The snare is a 6 ½x14 Supra-Phonic that was taped up, with the snares nice and loose. I've learned over the years as a studio musician that it's deceiving to tune a drumkit for recording. Most drummers want to tune their drums like they would for a live gig, but once you put mics on them, the sound isn't right. I've found that I generally tune pretty low in the studio. And I don't hit too hard. I let the compressors do their work to make the drums sound big. If you hit too hard, the drums can choke. You have to find a balance where you get a great sound without losing excitement. Charlie Watts is a good example of someone who doesn't hit hard but gets a cracking sound on record.

John Hiatt, "The Wreck Of The Barbie Ferrari," Perfectly Good Guitar (1993)
I had a lot of fun making this entire record. I picked "Barbie Ferrari" because of the groove. It has a straight feel against a swing feel, which is something you hear on early rock 'n' roll records. From what I've heard, a lot of those sessions had rock and jazz musicians playing together, and the jazz guys would be swinging while the rock guys would be playing straight.

For this track I created a percussion loop that's both swinging and straight. I played hand drum and finger cymbal parts with a straight feel and then added a swinging part on a paint bucket. Then I played the groove on the kit with a swing feel, but the fills are straight. It was a challenge switching gears like that. The loop helped me lock in with the different feels.

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